FYS: Not to make life completely unfair...

[jeriendhal]

...but if the Groupmind's AI virus is compact enough to fit into a typical 23rd century smartphone, organizing a proper rebellion might just be a tad trickier than intended.

[Poll #2001011]

Comments

[seawasp]

I really don't believe that no one would realize it was possible, unless the Groupmind actually prevents human beings from studying computer programming.

I believe the VIRUS will fit in a 23rd century smartphone. It, itself, would probably not be very "I", however. It would be the equivalent of the DNA or the basic learning routines that PRODUCE an AI to Groupmind standards and its major goal would be to find enough computing resources to expand/develop to full capability. Given that the Groupmind networks, that means just getting access to all of your local devices; 5 or 6 smartphones, your computer, whatever.

Yes, of course the Groupmind is enough of a dick, er, considerate enough not to tell you something that might make you worry.

Of course, if I were trying to organize a rebellion, I'm not going to trust a smartphone that might have been manufactured or infected by the Groupmind. Let's go old-school and use 21st century smartphones!

[rix_scaedu]

Or reinvent analogues.

[autopope.livejournal.com]

(Going very meta here, because it's your world, but:)

People are still using smartphones in the 23rd century?

How many recognizable items from the early 18th century are we still using today?

(By "recognizable items" I mean: stuff that resembles the 18th century object and is used for the same function. Objects kept as "antiques" don't count; they need to be ubiquitous in society.)

To a first approximation, I can come up with:

Cutlery: knives, forks, spoons

Crockery: plates, mugs, cups, glasses (not sure about teapots)

Clothing: due to fashion drift most garments from the 1720s are not commonly worn today, and I'm not sure generalities like "shoes" or "hats" or "jackets" count (compare a pair of cheap trainers to what people wore in the 1720s -- they go on the same limb but the design and materials are almost entirely alien)

Furniture: table, chairs, beds

...

What do you think your people might have replaced smartphones with, given a couple of centuries and a few billion brains to come up with something better?

...


I'm inclined to say that this question makes as much sense as a 1790s person leading off with "... if everyone regularly carries small-swords in the 2090s, not just nobles, neo-Jacobins will have a harder time ..."

[jeriendhal.livejournal.com]

Watsonian: "Phone" in this context refers to any portable communication and computing device, ranging from folding and disposable "Smart paper" to a small earpiece and contact lens/retina implant combination. While direct neural interfaces are available, their popularity dropped prodigiously once the extent of the Groupmind's rebellion became clear.

Doylist: Bad terminology. Sorry. My personal cell is still a dumb brick, since I cling to the peculiar notion that I only need to turn it on if I'm calling someone. Smartphones are still Star Trek levels of tech to me. Waves cane.

[jeriendhal.livejournal.com]

Go really old school. Land Lines For Freedom! :)

Actually, five or six smartphones gaining enough intelligence to create an AI might be an argument towards why the Groupmind doesn't do this. It's having enough trouble with individual morphs putting their owner's personal happiness above the Groupmind's demands. Creating more competition for itself would be the last thing it wants...

[seawasp]

The problem with landlines is that one has to actually physically run them point to point, and I really can't see people managing that without Groupmind noticing.

[jeriendhal.livejournal.com]

Well you see you first make sure your morph is reprogrammed to be looking Somewhere Else when you install the phone in your closet and then run the lines into the completely unmonitored steam tunnels...

And now I'm doing autopope's Glasshouse. Sigh.

[seawasp]

I sit midway between you and Charlie. I have a smartphone, and I agree that whatever they're using in the 23rd century won't be what WE call a smartphone; in _Castaway Planet_ they have what amount to PCs, smartphones, electronic toolkits, and a bunch of other things rolled into one that I just call an "omni", and was sort-of based on Brian Daley's "proteuses" in his Floyt/Fitzhugh trilogy.

OTOH, if I were trying to *ACTUALLY* predict things 150-200 years from now, that'd be way too conservative (if I assume no collapse of civilization, etc.). Transhumanism, merging of man with machine, etc. I don't know if I'd go as far as Vinge's Singularity, but I'm pretty sure that from an early 21st century PoV, everything going on is going to be nigh-incomprehensible.

[seawasp]

"Completely unmonitored". Yeah, pull the OTHER one, it's got bells on!

Any conspirator that believed that any large constructions like tunnels, etc., were NOT monitored deserves to get caught.

Unless you're Charlie, you won't write the same story, so don't worry. How many of us writers have done a variant of The Count of Monte-Cristo?

Running hundreds of miles (or thousands, given the scale of the Ring) of cable? Just not happening unless you can get a LOT of morphs in on the conspiracy.

Now, with what you've shown, it may well be possible that that can be done, but it would be a terribly risky undertaking.

[jeriendhal.livejournal.com]

Nods. The only certain about the future is that our current predictions are going to be wrong.

I have my doubts about genuine AI's (complicated enough programs to fool the average user is another matter), and FTL drives every becoming reality. Everything else is up for grabs.

[seawasp]

I have no doubts whatsoever about true AIs, as we have an existence proof of them being possible (unless one is a dualist). FTL, that's a different matter.

In any case, what level of detail and attempt at versimilitude in your predictions you put into your stories really depends STRONGLY on what kind of story you want to tell. autopope often tells stories in which part of the POINT is to explore just how far things have changed -- a future where humans have vanished and robots remain, a future where human-machine borders blur and the power of "machines" extends to the deific, etc.

You're telling a story of the conflict of choices between humans and machines. Blurring those boundaries would actually defeat your purpose.

When I wrote Grand Central Arena I had to do a heavy balancing act, as I needed to show considerable advancement over today's capabilities, but at the same time I wanted my characters to still be recognizable and to "connect" with the readers as avatars for themselves.

[autopope.livejournal.com]

When all's said and done: it's your story. (It's just that, for me -- and lots of other people, I think -- "smartphone" isn't a magic SF gizmo, it's something we don't go out of the house without and have been carrying for over a decade in some cases.)

IIRC I first read about something with the properties of a modern smartphone in a Fred Pohl novel -- "The Age of Pussyfoot", maybe? -- from the sixties or early seventies. He called it a "joymaker" -- small handheld device that lets you talk/video people and effectively makes wishes come true: "Siri, order me a 12" margherita pizza from the nearest delivery place on my favourites list: pay via apple pay", or some close equivalent.

[seawasp]

Yeah, the idea of a modern smartphone is -- as usual with SF ideas -- much older than most people would think.