I think I figured out why the Hulk movies don't work

[jeriendhal]

Not that they're bad per se, The Incredible Hulk was plenty fun to watch. It just seemed to have some basic structural problem that niggled at the back of my brain that had nothing to do with the climax involving Edward Norton disappearing down a hole (literally) and his CGI alter ego emerging to do battle with another CGI monster while the special effects department destroyed Harlem around them.

I figured it out this afternoon. Just compare it to the other Marvelverse movies that have been made leading up to the Avengers:

Iron Man: Tony Stark, playboy billionaire, has an epiphany while held captive, engineers his own escape and works his invention to turn himself from a self-centered egotist inventor to a (slightly less) self-centered hero, using his inventions for good.

Thor: Asgard's mightiest warrior is brought down to Earth to learn humility and become a hero, using his powers for good.

Captain America: Brave at heart-weak of body Steve Rogers is willing to go to any length to help others, even volunteering for a dangerous experiment, if only it means he can keep the world from being bullied into submission by Hydra.

Hulk: Bruce Banner gets hit by a science experiment gone wrong and becomes the Hulk. Much of the movie revolves around him desperately trying not to use his powers. It's only when the situation is arguably bad enough to cross the Gozilla Threshold (ie: It's bad enough that deliberately directing Godzilla into downtown Tokyo can't possibly make thing worse) that he attempts to Hulk Out voluntarily.

In other words, being the Hulk kinda sucks. When he changes, mild mannered Bruce Banner loses the mind that made him a great man, and become only a monster that even he fears. When he changes, not matter what he's up against, he loses.

It makes for a dramatic movie. Whether it makes for a good superhero movie, I'm just not sure about.

Comments

[jvowles.livejournal.com]

In The Avengers, it's apparently going to be a version of the Hulk where Banner and Hulk have reached a bit of a detente. In many versions, that's the way Hulk is harnessed -- a sort of "point it at the bad guys" thing.

[seawasp]

Well, yes, there's an obvious difference. The Hulk has to first work through the essential problem of BEING the Hulk before being a superhero is even an option. The Hulk is a werewolf, a modern Jekyll-and-Hyde with superhuman power, not a hero as such. If (as was implied at the end) he manages to control it, THEN he can opt to be a hero.

[kodi]

It's all about the moping, as far as I'm concerned. Ang Lee's Hulk has a problem, and he spends the entire movie moping about it = sucky superhero movie. The Incredible Hulk has a problem, and he spends too much of the movie moping about it = not quite so sucky movie. Superman in Superman Returns not only spends the whole movie moping, the movie makes it very clear that he spent a significant amount of time BEFORE the movie also moping = AUGH. It's fine for a superhero to deal with circumstances, and even be pissed off about it, but fruitless moping sucks.

[grayhawkfh.livejournal.com]

There's also what amounts to the quintessential Hulk story problem:

• Something or someone shows up.
  
• Hulk comes out & beats on it.
  
• Hulk gets madder and stronger.
  
• "HULK IS STRONGEST THERE IS!"
  
• Antagonist gets crushed.
  
• Hulk jumps away.

They managed to find a few ways around this in the comics after a while, mainly (as jvowles points out) by figuring out ways to "harness" the Hulk's power, whether giving him Banner's mind, removing it altogether...

[jeff-ringtail.livejournal.com]

I think Seawasp hit it on the nail. The original Hulk comics were a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde formula that the movies had missed. In fact, many of the early Hulk issues has the Hulk mentioning about killing Bruce Banner so that he can be free. Hulk was originally intended as a villain, not a hero.